Southern California has a long tradition of excellence in sports and leadership in the Olympic Movement. The Amateur Athletic Foundation is itself the legacy of the 1984 Olympic Games. The Foundation is dedicated to expanding the understanding of sport in our communities. As a part of our effort, we have joined with the Southern California Olympians, an organization of over 1,000 women and men who have participated on Olympic teams, to develop an oral history of these distinguished athletes.

Many Olympians who competed in the Games prior to World War II agreed to share their Olympic experiences in their own words. In the pages that follow, you will learn about these athletes, and their experiences in the Games and in life as a result of being a part of the Olympic Family.

The Amateur Athletic Foundation, its Board of Directors, and staff welcome you to use this document to enhance your understanding of sport in our community.

ANITA L. DE FRANTZ President Amateur Athletic Foundation of Los Angeles, Member, Southern California Olympians

AN OLYMPIAN'S ORAL HISTORY METHODOLOGY

Interview subjects include Southern California Olympians who competed prior to World War I I . Interviews were conducted between March 1987, and August 1988, and consisted of one to five sessions each. The interviewer conducted the sessions in a conversational style and recorded them on audio cassette, addressing the following major areas:

Family History

Date/place of birth; occupation of father/mother; siblings; family residence;  

Education

Primary and secondary schools attended; college and post-collegiate education;

Sport-Specific Biographical Data

Subject's introduction to sport—age, event and setting of first formal

competition; coaches/trainers/others who influenced athletic development;

chronology of sports achievements; Olympic competition; post-Olympic

involvement in sports;

General Biographical Data

Employment history; marital history; children; communities of residence; retirement;

General Observations

Reactions and reflections on Olympic experience; modernization of sport; attitudes on and involvement with the Olympic Movement; advice to youth and  aspiring athletes.

Interview transcripts were edited and may include additional material based on subsequent conversations and/or subject's own editing.

JANE FAUNTZ MANSKE

1928 OLYMPIC GAMES - AMSTERDAM

200-METER BREASTSTROKE

1932 OLYMPIC GAMES - LOS ANGELES

SPRINGBOARD DIVING

Bronze Medalist

INTERVIEWED:

July, 1987

Escondido, California

by George A. Hodak

JANE FAUNTZ MANSKE

Interviewer: George A. Hodak

Hodak: Mrs. Manske, before we get into discussing your development as a swimmer and diver, I'd like you to first of all mention when andwhere you were born.

Manske: I was born on December 19, 1910, in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Hodak: And your parents relocated to Chicago?

Manske: Yes, my dad was a railroad man, employed by the Illinois Central Railroad. We went up and down from Chicago to New Orleans and we just happened to be in New Orleans at the time I decided to get here.

Hodak: And you had how many brothers and sisters?

Manske: I had one step-brother who graduated from Annapolis and a sister

who was four years younger than I.

Hodak: And at what point did you take up an interest in swimming and diving? At a very early age?

Manske: Well, it wasn't very early and I wasn't very interested at the time; it was a matter of necessity. At 11 I nearly drowned and at 17 I swam in the Olympic Games representing the United States. I was a skinny little kid in high school and had not yet learned to swim. I was so small I could ride on the streetcar for half fare, a fact of which I was proud—but it backfired. My best friend was a voluptuous redhead with all the right parts in all the right places, and my body hadn't made up its mind yet. We were walking along the beach at Lake Michigan in Chicago when we ran into the entire high school football team. My friend got long, low whistles and one of the boys made a remark, obviously meant for me, "Why don't you go home, you look like six o'clock?" As if that wasn't enough, the following week I had to be rescued from an undertow in the lake by a lifeguard. He wasn't your tall, tan, handsome college-type either.Mine was bald, short and fat. That did it! I decided to learn how to swim.

Hodak: So did you swim in high school? Were there organized swimming meets for women in your high school?

Manske: No, there weren't in those days, but I did go to a local swim school and I learned to swim there.

Hodak: So your parents didn't particularly try to nurture an interest in swimming? It was something you developed on your own?

Manske: Well, it was something I developed on my own. Besides, I had been embarrassed at the lake, so I decided I had better learn how to do it and do it right.

Hodak: At what point did you become affiliated with the Illinois Women's Athletic Club?

Manske: Well, I started out learning to swim at the little club, as I said. In my first race I was so excited, I was swimming freestyle, and my cap came down over my eyes. I had started in lane one and ended up in lane six. Of course, I came in last but I figured I should have won something for swimming the most distance. So I was very serious about being a swimmer. Also, I liked to dive. So, the first meet I was in—like I said, I was a very skinny little kid and very short—I had to dive against 18-year-old girls. This was the first local meet that I was in. When I stepped up on the diving board everybody laughed at me because I was so tiny and so skinny. That made me mad so I went through my dives and I finished in first place and dethroned the local champion. I think she gave up diving right then and there. That was my first win and I kind of liked the idea.

Hodak: And you were roughly age 15?

Manske No, I was only 11 then.

Hodak: And you received diving and swimming lessons?

Manske: Right. And then at this particular meet I think my future coach,

Mrs. Lillian Winter Riley of the Illinois Women's Athletic Club, saw me dive and she said, "Would you like to represent the Illinois Women's Athletic Club? We are a new club and we will be sending you to national swimming championships if you become good enough." So I thought that was a chance to go ahead and get into bigger and better competition.

Hodak: So what would the circuit consist of if you were competing for the Illinois Women's Athletic Club? What was your routine like? Did you train daily?

Manske: Very seriously, twice a week. And when we had meets coming up it would be once on Sunday, so that would make it three times. It wasn't like they do now, this was enough. But it was in Chicago and in the middle of winter and a little cold and all. If you chose to be a swimmer you had to go along with the weather. We went into local championships like the Central Division of the AAU, and they had a lot of indoor and outdoor meets and we did all of that. Then we sort of set our sights on the Olympic tryouts. That was, well, way out of the question almost, but I was in high school and I thought my big dream would be to make one of the American Olympic teams. It seemed impossible at the time but it was there in my mind. I really worked with that, thinking that nothing was impossible. You know, the impossible dream you can achieve. And so, later when I was practicing for the Olympic tryouts, I didn't know whether I was going to try out for swimming or diving. The 100-meter breaststroke was my main stroke but in the Olympics they had 200 meters, not 100 meters, and that meant I would have to double my distance. I didn't have the strength and the ability to do that, but as long as that was the only swimming event in my stroke I had to shoot for that.

Hodak: Then you were thinking about competing as a diver also?

Manske: I was, but then I thought the competition was so great at the time. There was Dorothy Poynton, Georgia Coleman, Helen Meany andClarita Hunsberger—and that was about tops. That was enoughwhen you consider that there were only three in each event to be taken. So I figured that I had a better chance in swimming, but my real dream was to be a diver. I thought if I am ever lucky enough to stand up there and dive in the Olympic Games that I would suddenly realize that I had gotten to my dream and I felt like I was going to fall over in a dead faint. I knew I would, in front of all those people. But that's another story.

So, getting back to the swimming, I had the misfortune of being in an automobile accident six months before the Olympic tryouts. I was  run over on Michigan Avenue. I was walking at the crosswalk and I was run over and the muscular spiral nerve in my right arm was severely injured. Had it been severed—it almost was—I would have had a withered arm. But my doctor was very astute and he said, "Get in the pool. Move that arm as much as you can." Every stroke was excruciating, but I did bring that arm back. I swam as much as I could because that was the only exercise. I just gave up my idea of diving at that point because it would have been too much of a shock, a nervous shock on the arm. And so I swam and luckily enough, I don't know how it happened, I made the Olympic team. This was six months after the accident in 1928, and I was to be on the team to swim 200-meter breaststroke. It would have been a lot easier for me if it had been 100 meters; 200 meters, as you could see, is twice as long and a great strain on the body, but I had to do it.

Hodak: I am amazed that you were able to rehabilitate yourself in that period of time. Were there other things that you did to strengthen yourself?

Manske: (Laughter) That brings me back to my father, the great trainer. He'd wanted me to gain more strength so I would be stronger for 200 meters instead of 100 meters. He'd get me up early in the morning and make me run around the block before school every day, rain or shine, snow or sleet or hail—I had to go. And there was this little dog who used to wait for me around the corner and he would run too. I guess when it was raining he appreciated getting under my umbrella with me. We had quite a thing going, this little dog and I. Then when I'd get back, father would give me cod liver oil and orange juice and eggs and oatmeal and everything. I thought I was going to throw up. We worked so hard to gain weight and strength. I don't know what it did for my strength but I gained exactly two pounds in all that time.

Hodak: Your father was a bit of a taskmaster?

Manske: Well, yes he was.

Hodak: And he was pretty determined to see you do well in the Olympics?

Manske: Right, he was. So I was lucky and made the team.

Hodak: What do you recall of the tryouts?

Manske: They were in Rockaway Beach, Long Island, New York. I remember it was a shallow pool because Georgia Coleman, diving from the three-meter board, hit the bottom of the pool and broke off the bottom of two of her front teeth. She had to travel along on the team with not the best looking choppers. And I came second, I believe, to Agnes Geraghty in the tryouts and the time was alright.I really only wanted to go 100 meters, but since they didn't have 100 meters, I had to double my efforts and double my time and verything in order to do it to make the team. I did and it was a wonderful experience.

Hodak: And there were a number of athletes from the Illinois Athletic Club on the men's swimming team.

Manske: Yes, John Weissmuller, from the Illinois Athletic Club and I think there were some others in water polo. And Walter Laufer was on that team, though he was from the Lakeshore Athletic Club in Chicago.

Hodak: And then the coaches . . .

Manske: Oh, big, bad. Bill Bachrach was Johnny Weissmuller's coach and where Johnny went. Bill Bachrach went. He was, of course, the men's swimming coach and that was great. The women's swimming coach was Bob Kiphuth of Yale and, incidentally. Bob Kiphuth could  not swim. And we thought that was marvelous. He was a book expert. He went by the book. He was a great coach, but it was rumored that he could not swim himself. I thought that was kind of interesting.

Hodak: That is quite interesting. Now, following the tryouts, you leave on board the SS Roosevelt, I believe.

Manske: The SS President Roosevelt, yes. And it took us two weeks to get to Europe. Of course, nobody was flying in those days, although Mr. Lindbergh had gone all by himself but that was it. The rest of us had to go by boat. It took us two weeks but it was fun. It was a floating stadium.

Manske: Right, because we all had to keep in shape. We had a pool that was about eight feet by eight feet square. It was a wood pool and it was lined with canvas, a big canvas. And it was filled with salt-water every day. We had to get in there and swim with the ocean doing its usual thing and the water slopping in and out of our very small pool. This was the only way the swimmers could keep limbered up and stay in shape. We had to swim in place. We had a harness around us and on the other end of the harness was a long pole and on the other end of the pole was the swimming coach sitting perched on the edge of this wooden swimming pool we had. John Weissmuller was so big he had to swim cattycornered. So here we were in the harness and swimming and we had the clocks on us so we could tell how long we had to swim. And the coach kept hollering do this and do that or whatever. We were swimming in place and John was so big he nearly pulled Bachrach in a few times. The rest of us just swam normally in place for five minutes. We did that twice a day and that's all the training that we had for two weeks on the way over. The divers had their springboard so that they could keep their legs limber. They would do their approaches and spring and bounce and then the girls would just go off and land feet first onto regular mats. Why they didn't get more sprained ankles, I don't know. The boys would do a front somersault and land feet first or do back somersaults and land feet first. But luckily nobody was hurt. Then of course, the track people had it easy because they ran round and round on the deck. They'd holler, "Track!" and you'd better get out of the way or else. If it wasn't that, there would be a bicycle rider right there. Then of course, the crew men practiced in their stationary rowing machines, which was fine because we had everything from single-oared, double-oared, four-oared and eight-oared shell. The beautiful California eight-oared shell crew, this was their first trip and [Carroll M.] Ky Ebright was their coach. The pole vaulters had a very difficult time because there was no place that they could go except overboard and we weren't about to turn around and pick up a stray pole vaulter or two. So it was a very interesting floating stadium, as I said, watching the workouts every day. Then we had movies at night. Of course, John Weissmuller and Helen Meany had been on the 1924 Olympic team and they were older than the rest of us. We all looked up to them and they dressed for dinner, the rest of us just . . . well, we peasants went in and had dinner and sat in awe of these lovely people sitting there all dressed up, dining. We were just stuffing ourselves, but they were dining.

Hodak: And what do you recall of the accommodations on board the ship?

Manske: (Laughter) There were four in a room where I was and I remember the big bed on top of mine that looked like a big coffin. We drew straws to see who got "the coffin" and who didn't on either sides. The ship at night was a little rough and you'd be rocking around. We'd rather have been down on the first bunk rather than up in "the coffin," as we called it. Then we had movies every night which were fun and we had many dates to choose from. There were 200 men and only 20 women on the team, so I had never had it so good, as to the number of choices.

Hodak: Well, that might have been the reason there were a couple of chaperones?

Manske: Yes, there were but . . .

Hodak: And there was one uninvited man on board?

Manske: Oh right. That is right.

Manske: Frank Hussey, who had tried out and he was one of the great prospects in men's track. He tried out and he just missed the team. He was a good friend of Agnes Geraghty, one of the swimmers, a breaststroke swimmer. And so he stowed away aboard the ship. It was very exciting. I guess they took his meals to him. I don't know where he stayed. I was a little young for all this stuff. But I guess he bunked in with some of the other track stars and they brought food to him all the time. I don't know what happened with him, they couldn't send him home until we got over there but I think everybody passed the hat and he was allowed to stay and watch the Games. It was very exciting, I thought.

Manske: Yes, I was a little scared high school kid. I was just 17 and I spent the first two days in my cabin. I was afraid to come up on account of all the boys there but I soon lost my inhibitions and adjusted.

Hodak: And did you have a curfew? What sort of regulations were issued?

Manske: I guess we had a nine o'clock movie, or maybe eight o'clock, and then we all had to be in bed right after that, and that was it.

Hodak: But overall you didn't find traveling on board a ship too big a problem for you?

Manske: Oh no! It was wonderful except we did run out of eggs and had to have powdered eggs and they were the worst. They smelled so badly. But eggs are eggs, I guess, and when you run out of the real thing you have to improvise. So we had these powdered eggs that smelled like sulfur, that's all I can remember.

Manske: We did because there were too many of us to use this pool and the schedules hadn't been worked out right. Besides, I think they sprang a leak in it, it was not a new pool. The Dutch had kind of patched everything up to have the Olympics and so during this time they sent us to Paris—only the girls, I don't know where the boys were. But we had a good time in Paris. I remember I was too young to go to the Folies-Bergere. You had to be 18 and here I am 17, so I didn't get to go. We practiced in the 1924 Olympic Pool and it was very interesting. It was a great pool so we really kept up our swimming besides some wonderful side trips. We went to the Palace of Versailles and the Louvre. We went to Napoleon's Tomb and we saw some fabulous cathedrals. We went to the Bois de Boulogne, as we French say. Me and my high school French. I remember we had dinner at a wonderful place, the Champs d'Elysees. It was a luncheon I guess. It was a very fabulous place, I should one day go back. They served us these hors d'oeuvres things on a tray. There were about four or five different elevated trays of wonderful goodies and we thought, "What a silly way to serve lunch." We girls just cleaned those out but by the time we finished those they brought our regular luncheon. We were not very continental or international in our eating habits at 17. But it was really a lot of fun. I would like to have seen the Folies-Bergere, but that will have to wait.

Hodak: So you were able to stay in shape for the Olympics?

Manske: When we went back—we were only in Paris for four days—they had arranged the schedule and we practiced in different pools. I remember one time was ladies day at the YMCA. A Dutch lady was talking to another Dutch lady and she was giving this little boy a lesson. They had the harness around the little boy and she had the end of the pole—I guess that was going on in those days—and she was leaning too hard on the pole and she was talking to her friend and her little swimmer, her little pupil, was swimming in the air, all by himself up there, about four feet out of the water. She was very busy talking to her friend. I guess that was one thing that I remembered particularly about swimming at the YMCA. I had never been in the YMCA before, being a lady, but there's always a first for everything.

Hodak: What do you recall of the Opening Ceremony of the Olympics?

Manske: They were the most fabulous thing because we all had beautiful white uniforms; white dress and a white three-quarter length coat I guess it was wool with the Olympic shield and we had white hats. And the American girls were the hit of the Opening Ceremonies because we thought we looked pretty smart and I guess the audience  did too. And I can remember the Turks particularly and the East Indians, they had their very colorful uniforms. You know, the turbans for the East Indians and the fezzes for the Turks. I was amazed to find out . . . . These were track stars, the East Indian men, and they had long flowing beards. I kept wondering what happens to them when they run. Are they going to get in their way so they can't see where they are going? And later on I found, as I watched them run, that most of them ran barefooted and they rolled their beards up. They took them at the very start and rolled them right up so that they had a roll and the ends hooked over their ears and they secured them with hairpins. So that solved that big mystery. There were only four of them. I don't think they made any great splash at the Olympics but they certainly made an impression on me at the Opening Ceremonies.

Hodak: Anything else impress you about the Opening Ceremonies?

Manske: Well, no except that they had all the pigeons as they usually do and there was a big long speech by some Dutch official and Queen Wilhelmina was there to bid us all welcome.

Manske: We were allowed to attend other events. I guess we had to practice on board ship in that silly old pool when we couldn't use the actual swimming pool, or they had schedules. Oh, I remember, they had early morning schedules before the Games; when people were using the stadium they were not using the swim stadium. So we were scheduled at different times and we had to take the launch through the canals. I used to get sick all the time because it was just like going through some spinach or whatever it was, the stench of the canals was so awful. On the way there we just kind of held our noses until we got there and then on the way back we'd have to hold our noses too. But in between times we had much fun. We'd go on these little shopping tours in Amsterdam itself. And I can remember one time when there was a bunch of little kids who followed us from the ship. They were little kids that lived along the docks, and they wore little red and white shorts, and little red and blue striped tee shirts. I thought they were great. So I saw some in town—I think they were fifty cents apiece—and I bought a couple. I like to think I was quite fashion conscious in high school. So I wore them with our navy blue uniforms which was just a navy blue suit. Incidentally, everybody began doing that, all the girls. Even when we got back to New York, Lord and Taylor had the same little things, only they were about four or five dollars. The same things that we had picked up for fifty cents in Amsterdam. Anyway, the little kids were wearing those. And instead of hot dog stands, they had fish. So there were dried herring hanging up by their tails in a stand, sort of like you would have a hot dog or any kind of a food place, only they had strings of them up there. Hanging up there like the laundry were all these little dried herring. The kids would buy those and eat them, just hold them up by the tail and down them. And they all wore these clippity-clop little wooden shoes. So whenever we'd go shopping we'd wear our USA sweatshirts so that if we got lost, not speaking any good Dutch, they would direct us back to the ship, because we were docked right there and we lived on the ship. So one time I remember I was having a lot of fun because the little kids made so much noise and they'd giggle all the time. You giggle . . . that's an international language and you know everybody's happy. So we got right in front of Queen Wilhelmina's palace and it seemed to be a square, I have forgotten what they call it now. But anyway, it was a wooden . . . .

Hodak: I think that's Dam Square you're talking about.

Manske: Wooden blocks all put together. And it was right in front of the palace and I stopped there and turned around and here were about ten little kids following two or three of us when we were going shopping. I started to do the Charleston, which was kind of in vogue in those days, and they giggled and giggled and thought it was so much fun and then they started to do it—or try to do it. You should have heard all this clippity-clop with the wooden shoes. It's a wonder Queen Wilhelmina didn't come out on the balcony and shoo us all off. But that was just part of the fun of the shopping that we did.

Hodak: It sounds like you were allowed a bit of free time.

Manske: Yes, we were.

Hodak: What do you recall then of your actual event?

Manske: Well, in my actual event, the whole thing was that I was a sprinter and not a distance person. They did not have my distance, the 100-meter breaststroke, in the Olympics. They now have, but at the time it was only 200 meters. So I had to go twice as far and there was only the same amount of me. And it was a great strain on me because of the fact that I didn't have that much endurance. I got down to about 105 pounds, so I was a little small to compete against some of those Dutch girls, who, to me, when I got up on the mark with them, looked like they were about three times my size. They had three times more strength than I had too. I had a wide kick, but my arms were not that good. Still, looking back to that accident, I am sure it didn't help to improve my strength in the arms. But I had a strong kick to make up for it, I hoped. It was a very wide kick and when I kicked—we had to practice outdoors in the cold water there in the mornings. Of course, it was cold in Amsterdam—I pulled groin muscles in both my thighs and they never really had a chance to heal. Every time I could go for about 100 meters, but after that, when I would get into the other half of the 200 meters, my legs would hurt and it would just be excruciatingly painful most of the time. But I had to do it and I did it. When I swam in the Games I swam with my legs all tied up. I looked like a mummy all bound up with adhesive tape trying to hold them in place. It didn't help much. It just made me look like I was from Egypt or something.

Hodak: But you managed to finish second in your heat.

Manske: I finished second in my heat and I got into the semifinals and that's when I drew Hilda Schrader, who was the eventual winner. And in my heat she broke an Olympic record. I understand I gave her a pretty sharp race for the first 100 meters and then I began to fade and that was the end. It was very painful. I did the best I could under the circumstances, but somebody's got to win and somebody's got to lose. I felt very down. I wanted to do much better than that but it was so painful. The legs didn't have a chance to heal in between the time that I pulled them and the time I actually had to swim. Even now, the swimmers don't swim if there's a pulled muscle in the groin or the thigh. I remember in the Olympics in 1984 in Los Angeles it happened. The leader in the 100-meter semifinals, a man, pulled a groin muscle and he did not swim in the finals. I had come so far, there was no backing out. It was double or nothing.

Manske: Oh, absolutely. They were so big you had to be impressed.

Hodak: And what about other swimming events? I'm sure you were able to see some of your teammates compete.

Manske: Oh yes. My roommate was Agnes Geraghty. She was the odds-on favorite to win the 100-meter freestyle and Albina Osipowich came up unexpectedly and won. Agnes came in second and that was a big  surprise. Of course, Martha Norelius was fabulous. I guess she anchored the relay and she won the 100-meter and I guess she won the 400-meter. But I am reminded of her, her name sounds so much like the great Marcus Aurelius. But I thought they were two great people in their different events. The one thing that I do remember was when the boys were swimming to see who was going to swim first position on the 400-meter relay. And it was little Austin Clapp from Stanford—and I mean little. Austin was 5 foot 6. And the other alternate was Buck Sampson from Michigan. And Buck was 6 foot 6. Now, you have a 5 foot 6 swimming a 6 foot 6. And so they started . . . and we had been to this big Dutch exhibition someplace and we had, unfortunately, this wonderful Dutch food luncheon beforehand and most of us were glad we didn't have to try to break any records because we really loved that Dutch cooking. It was fabulous. These two had to swim it that day. John Weissmuller, of course, was going to anchor the relay but starting position was between Austin Clapp and Buck Sampson, the "Mutt and Jeff" of the team. So when they took off, they both hit the water at the same time when the gun went off. And they had the watches on them, but Austin Clapp was so small that when Buck came up and hit the surface he was a good two feet ahead of Austin Clapp. They swam and they swam and when they finished they both touched in a dead heat. I'm kind of glad because I thought that Austin should have won it anyway because he had to swim further. When they hit it in a dead heat, then Austin did get to swim in the relay. I thought he really earned it because he had that much further to make up.

Hodak: Were you able to see other events then, outside of swimming?

Manske: Oh yes, I forgot all about the wonderful California eight-oared shell crew from the University of California. It was the first eight-oared shell crew with Ky Ebright as the coach. I think there were two others. Didn't he have two other eight-oared shell winners in the Olympics? Oh, he was a fabulous coach. But anyway, we went out to see the rowing event and it was very close. I was sort of interested in one of the California crewmen, number six, Mr. Jim Workman, and I wanted to see him win in this race. The Sloten Canal was so smooth, it was like glass that day and it was a narrow thing. We just were standing on the side. We didn't have any kind of seats but we were standing there on the side. And to watch them come through and win! It was a very close race. I forgot who it was they beat out. But anyway, later I asked little Don Blessing, the coxswain, "What in the world did you say to the boys to make them win and just finish like they did? It was so close." And he said, "I told them there was beer at the end of the race."

Hodak: Were you able to see many other events?

Manske: Well, we saw a lot of the track events, but they came early. Then we saw all of the swimming events with Johnny Weissmuller. The diving was beautiful for the men. Farid Simaika was a diver from Egypt, but he had trained in the United States all the time. Pete Desjardins won the springboard diving and then he went up to win the tower also. But Farid and Pete Desjardins were so close in the tower that it was almost up for grabs. Farid was a very emotional Egyptian. He did a little dance up there on top of the tower that I'll never forget. He thought he should have won and he came in second. So, it was Pete Desjardins, the double Olympic winner in the springboard and tower diving.

Hodak: Were there any ceremonies or anything like we have today in the form of a Closing Ceremony?

Manske: That I don't remember, I really don't, because some of them took off as soon as their event was over. They were in Europe and they wanted to take advantage of it. I know the whole California crew went on a bicycling tour afterwards. I think people had to go home as soon as their events were over.

Hodak: Some athletes may have gone to other meets, too. Some of the track stars were invited to exhibitions and things. I think the swimming team was invited to an exhibition in Haarlem the day before you left.

Manske: I don't remember, everything was kind of an anticlimax. So I really don't remember. It was nothing like in 1932 where everything was different.

Hodak: And was there anything memorable about your departure or your return trip?

Manske: Yes, we all knew each other a lot better and the lid was off and we didn't have curfew and all that. I remember Josephine McKim and I went shopping just before the boat was to sail. I wanted to get a trenchcoat to come back to the States with because they were quite in at that time. I didn't want to go home with any guilders. I had some money left and I hate to have money left so we went out to spend it. We looked around a little too long and lost track of the time and meanwhile we heard this funny noise from the ship. It was sailing and we had missed it! They had to send a tender back to pick us up because the two of us had missed it. So we came back to the ship and General MacArthur, who was the head of the American Olympic Committee, was there to greet us and he wasn't very pleased with us having held up the ship's sailing for two females who were doing a little last minute shopping. But you know how that is with us girls. So Jo and I stayed in our stateroom for a couple of hours. We were afraid to come out after we had had this dressing down. Little did I know at the time what an important gentleman he was and I should remember that not very many of us had an opportunity to be dressed down by General Douglas MacArthur.

Hodak:

MacArthur. Is there anything further you want to discuss regarding the return trip?

Manske: No, except it was a lot of fun. My mother and dad met me in New York and I wasn't expecting them. I had left a shy, little 17-year-old, with all little girl friends. When I came down from the ship I had half of the lacrosse team from Johns Hopkins University and a couple of crewmen with me and I was the center of attention at that particular moment, just as I came down the gangplank. Here was mother and father, and they couldn't believe that I had grown up so much in such a short time.

Hodak: And was there any sort of parade or any kind of honoring of the Olympic team once you arrived?

Manske: Yes. Mayor Jimmy Walker of New York gave us all a big medal and then they had a big luncheon for us. Then we all departed and that was it. I don't remember whether we had some kind of parade—I guess we did.

Hodak: You also competed in the 1932 Olympics. Let's talk about what happened in that period between the Olympics.

Manske: Well, between 1928 and 1932 I attended San Pedro High School in the Los Angeles area. I was visiting my brother who was stationed in the Navy there. So while I was out on the West Coast I called Fred Cady at the LAAC and asked if I could work out there. When I arrived, Georgia Coleman was very unfriendly. I could almost feel the animosity.

Hodak: Georgia Coleman was also a springboard diver?

Manske: Yes, Georgia was on the 1928 Olympic team as a springboard diver. So, while I was there I just felt that I wasn't very welcome. But there was a dentist there by the name of Dr. William Beasley who really helped me a lot. He was the assistant diving coach and he decided that it wasn't right the way they were treating me and so he helped me at different clubs in the area. So we didn't go back to the LAAC where I had felt uncomfortable. Then, later on after the first semester in high school out there, I returned to Chicago. I competed in the Central AAU Championships in both breaststroke and diving and I had held those championships for about seven straight years. Then, in 1929, the indoor national championships were slated for the Lakeshore Athletic Club in Chicago. This was my chance to do something in the nationals which I had not done up to this point. I won two national championships within a half an hour. I won the one-meter springboard and also the 100-meter breaststroke. This was my way of getting back at Georgia a little bit. I only beat her by one point but she didn't even congratulate me.

Then I won the 100-yard breaststroke by beating Agnes Geraghty, who had been on the 1928 Olympic team also. In the medley relay, the Illinois Women's Athletic Club came in second to the New York Women's Swimming Association. So, the overall point winner was Martha Norelius from the New York Women's Swimming Association. She had won two golds and a gold in the relay. The relay consisted of Agnes Geraghty, Eleanor Holm and Martha Norelius. That was a pretty big set-up anyway. So, after high school, I enrolled in Chicago at the Art Institute for a year before going to college. I continued my swimming at the Illinois Women's Athletic Club. I had a chance to win the Canadian Diving Championship at Ottawa and at a dual meet I broke the national indoor 100-yard breaststroke mark. Then we came to the 1930 indoor nationals in Miami Beach, Florida. Being defending champion in two events, in those days they paid your expenses. So I went down a little early to Miami. I was diving by myself and a local coach was watching me and he gave me a very valuable piece of advice. He said, "In diving competition, you never watch the others dive.

You can tell by the crowd if they are hitting the dives but it is different when you see it. And it disturbs your own concentration." So I decided that I'd like to try to follow his advice. I had to beat Georgia again to prove that the year before was no fluke. I remembered how she had treated me since I first started competing against her. During the competition, I didn't watch any of her dives and I hit my last dive, which was my favorite—a full twist—for tens. This is the highest you can score. I was elated. I hit the dressing room when she hadn't even done her last dive. I won the one-meter diving championship again. I didn't even mind losing the breaststroke to Agnes Geraghty. The diving was all that mattered to me. Besides, it was St. Patrick's Day and you have to be good to the Irish on St. Patrick's Day. Then after school, more art school, and then it was time to make a decision about college. My life was not to be athletics alone. I decided to enroll in the University of Illinois where I enjoyed a normal social life while working for a B.A. degree in education with an art major. I joined Kappa Alpha Theta sorority. Since the University of Illinois didn't allow women to use the men's pool, there was no place for me to practice on a three-meter board. But the pool was only eight feet deep anyway. I felt like if I hit the bottom with my hands my feet ould still be sticking out. So I retired. At that time the University of Illinois or other major colleges really didn't do much in the way of supporting women's athletics.  We had a swimming team but we had what we called telegraphic meets. We would swim our event against the clock, and then we would telegraph our times to the other schools. So who knows who was telling the truth or who was really champion.

Hodak: So going to college was sort of a retirement from amateur swimming?

Manske: It was really because most everybody else in the swimming world, like Eleanor Holm and Georgia Coleman, didn't go to school. They just swam after high school, and that was it.

Hodak: They continued their affiliation with the clubs?

Manske: That was it, that was their whole life. The only time that I could practice in diving at all was during the summer vacation. The 1932 Olympic Games in Los Angeles were coming up and since there was no one-meter springboard diving event, only a three-meter, I had to concentrate on that. The new Olympic rules said that you only had to do six dives. This was to enable the foreign girls to compete against us because we didn't seem to have much competition among any foreign divers. It was all American divers, both men and women.

Hodak: What was the logic behind reducing the amount of dives?

Manske: Well, we'd be more on a general level. There were six dives; three compulsory and three optional, instead of what they had had before. Last time, in 1928, there were ten dives, five of each. So that is the reason they did it I guess. And it was amazing in 1932 how many of the former Olympic champions tried out for the team and didn't make it. Helen Meany, in the diving, tried out for tower, and Ethel Lackie, who had been in the 1924 Olympic 100-meter freestyle, also from the Illinois Women's Athletic Club, tried out and failed to make the team too.

Hodak: And these tryouts were held in New York?

Manske: These were held at Jones Beach, Long Island, New York. They were sponsored by the New York Daily Mirror for which Paul Gallico was a very well-known sportswriter at the time. He was in charge of them. Now shall we go to the Olympics in Los Angeles?

Hodak: Sure.

Manske: The old rivalry resumed there. In the summer of 1932 I only had one month before the Olympic trials at Jones Beach. Georgia's whole life had been diving, she hadn't been going to college. Katherine Rawls was a new all-around threat. In the semifinals of the diving trials Coleman was first, Rawls was second, and I was third. We were each separated from each other by one point only. Then in the finals it just reversed. Rawls came in first, Coleman second and I was third. Once again, one point separating each one of us, so it was going to be close. The old rivalry resumed once we got to Los Angeles. Los Angeles was Georgia's home town and Georgia's coach was Fred Cady who was the women's Olympic diving coach, which made it quite convenient for some people. We had a chartered train across the country, to Los Angeles from New York. It took us about four days. It was much more fun than the Olympics proved to be later on, because this was the only contact we had with the boys. The women were put up at the Chapman Park Hotel and the men were at the new Olympic Village, which was this country's way of telling the world that they could bring their athletes and it wouldn't cost that much and they could all be taken care of at the same place. This was the first time that this had been done. However, I really missed the boys. I think we had more fun in Europe when we all lived on the ship together.

In the dining room there at the Chapman Park Hotel, they had a lot of colorful flags for each table. If you sat down where there was a little Japanese flag, you would get Japanese food. If you sat down where the German flag was, you would get German food. Of course, there were the English, and our own good ol' American food tasted pretty good too. Practice in the diving was very lonely for me. I had no help from Mr. Cady. He also had Mickey Riley and [Harold] "Dutch" Smith from the LAAC to coach, with Georgia, those were his special charges. And it was very noticeable, especially to me. This was the first time we had an adjustable fulcrum on the springboard. It was great because it could adjust to your individual weight. I liked a loose board with a slow spring. During the pre-game practices we had a little tragedy. Louisa Roberts, who had given Eleanor Holm a great race in the backstroke in the Olympic tryouts, came down with appendicitis and had to have an emergency operation. So she was out of the Games. Johnny Weissmuller used to come down to practice at the pool there. We always knew when he was on the way, he'd give his Tarzan yell. This was kind of fun. And there was a little Japanese diver who was just about knee-high to Johnny and he was up on the tower when Johnny would come in and give his yell. Well, he'd yell back with his Japanese version of the Tarzan yell. It was a little different.

Speaking of the Japanese, there is another story that was supposed to have actually happened at the Games. Right before the races, they said that the Japanese men swimmers had been given pure oxygen. Something must have happened because they won every race except one, I believe. That was the one that Buster Crabbe won and it was the 400. I asked Buster about this and he said that it was rather disconcerting to be standing on the starting block and look over and see some little Japanese with the mark around the nose and mouth as though a suction cup had been recently removed.

This was, of course, during the bottom of the Depression and I was more lonely than usual because my folks couldn't afford to come out from Chicago to the Olympics to watch me dive. There were a lot of side amusements and entertainment for us. For instance, we were invited to one party, a swimming party, and met Groucho and Chico Marx, the famous comedians. And Groucho even wasted a good joke on me. I was standing next to him and he said, "Do you know what I am going to do next year?" And I said, "No, what are you going to do next year?" And he said, "Next year, I'm going to build a house without a pool and teach my kids not to swim." That was kind of apropos.

Then we were invited to Paramount Studios where we met Will Rogers, who was there at the time, as was Marlene Dietrich. I remember being very fascinated by this legend because she had no eyebrows, they were completely shaved off and just penciled on.

Let's see, what else. I remember missing a lovely luncheon by the mayor because I stayed to practice. I was all by myself. I was very serious and I wanted to practice so I kind of skipped that one.

Hodak: Were you allowed to practice at the Olympic pool?

Manske: Yes, the practice sessions were so great. We all had our schedules but I figured everybody was gone to the luncheon so I could get in an extra practice.

Hodak: That sounds as if the practice sessions were a bit easier than at the 1928 Olympics.

Manske: It really was. Everything was so much better organized. Now, the opening of the Games were quite different than the opening of the Games in 1928. It was all the hoopla and pageantry of the United States and sort of Hollywood in there too. We had a full crowd. I think the opening ticket cost about a dollar to get into the Olympics and, if you recall, by comparison, in 1984 the cost of the Games was a good 75 dollars I believe, for the Opening Ceremonies. Maybe it was more than that.

Hodak: Depending on where you sat, I imagine.

Manske: Well, just to sit down was expensive in 1984. At the opening of the Games, Vice-President William Curtis gave the address. We were all disappointed as athletes that our own President couldn't come out, when the Games were held in his country, and open them officially. We thought it was bad public relations. But Mr. Curtis said something to the effect that Mr. Hoover was too busy.

By this time, I was much more mature. I was a college girl. But anyway, getting back to the hotel where we all were stationed. [Mildred] Babe Didriksen, was a very outspoken, not exactly shy, individual. She was always talking about what she was going to do and she was quite vociferous. We got the impression that she could do anything better than any of us. She even said she could dive and there was an incident where she went out to the pool and tried a two-and-a-half forward somersault, which was what the boys were doing in those days.

Hodak: You mean a high degree of difficulty?Manske: Oh, yes. But, two-and-a-half somersaults, having not done much diving in your life, takes an awful lot of courage. She made a very flat landing, I understand. It was not successful. She went on to brag about playing golf. She said she had only played a few times in her life and that she could break 81 on the Riviera Country Club golf course. So she had a few takers on that: Paul Gallico, the sportswriter; Grantland Rice, a great sportswriter; and Westbrook Pegler, another great writer. They all went out to play golf with her. And by golly, she shot an 82 and was very unhappy because it wasn't an 80. So, they were indeed impressed. And, as you know. Babe Didriksen went on to have a great future as a golfer.

As the time grew closer, I concentrated more, but I was really suffering because I didn't have any coaching. It was not an easy thing to do. I didn't know what I was doing. I knew the dives, and when they'd feel good, I'd know. But when a dive wouldn't feel good, I didn't know quite what I was doing wrong. Had I had somebody to help me, then I could have picked up on it.

Hodak: So you really were completely on your own?

Manske: Right, I was.

Hodak: Did you receive any help from the other divers?

Manske: Well, they were mostly concentrating on their own work. Diving is a lonely sport. You're up there and you're by yourself. Either you do it right and you hit it or you don't. There is no one to blame but yourself. So, that's one thing you can't depend on anyone else for. But, getting back to the hotel where we all lived . . . Helene Madison was a very interesting individual, due to the fact that she  was much of a loner. She was tall; she had to be close to six feet. And she spent most of her time painting her fingernails and toenails bright red. That had just come in at that time. But she was really much of a loner. Then, meanwhile, we got Louisa Roberts out of the hospital and her father gave her a compensation party at the Cocoanut Grove at the Ambassador Hotel. I remember dancing there at the Cocoanut Grove with my 6-foot-6 boyfriend, and who should come dancing by but Helene Madison, dancing with no less than Clark Gable. Helene was a pretty good half-head taller than Clark so I didn't see any point in changing partners. He did go down in my estimation just a little bit.

Now for the diving contest. I drew the number one starting position. This isn't really a good position because of the fact that when you're doing the compulsory dive, your dive is the basis for comparison for those who follow you. And if you do a great dive, you're not going to get a great mark, because someone might come along and do a better dive than yours; and how are you going to do a great-great dive? So, all in all, it was a bad way to start out, but I couldn't help it. That's the way the luck went. But when I got up there to do my first dive, I thought back to my high school dream where I dreamed that one day I would be standing on the diving board waiting to do my first dive in the Olympic Games and that at that point I would fall over in a dead faint. I thought about this at the time, but there were 10,000 people there watching me and I couldn't do it. Just then the whistle blew and the competition was stopped before it started. The Hungarian judge decided that my suit was cut too low in the back. It was not the regulation Olympic suit that they had given us, which was only cut down six inches in the back.

Hodak: And would be a bit more restrictive.

Manske: Absolutely, and we had a skirt on it. And the suit that I had practiced in had a nice low cut back and it didn't have a skirt. It was a little cotton suit and it looked like silk when I dove. So I wasn't thinking of how I looked, that I was not decently dressed.

Hodak: But this was deemed scandalous by the Hungarian judge?

Manske: That it was. So, when I went down to change my suit, the rest of the girls practiced and they changed the fulcrum. And I was so unnerved when I got back that I went ahead just as though no one had touched the fulcrum and it was where I had left it. But it was not. So it threw me off a little bit on my first dive. So, after the first dive, Georgia and Katherine Rawls had tied for first and I was in second place. Then the rest of the dives came but as they came, well . . . . I think I'd like to read a little quote from an article written by Paul Gallico, about the diving event, because it tells somebody else's view of what actually happened. And he says, and ( quote, "The American girls were obviously the best divers and one was sure to win the title. But which one? Georgia Coleman had, for several years, been the American champion, but Jane Fauntz had caught the eyes of the experts while practicing before the Games. Her marvelous body flowed through the dives with the smoothness of running quicksilver. It was predicted a new champion would be crowned; not because the old was slipping, but because the new was greater. Jane Fauntz had one particular dive which was her pet, a body-twisting screw dive. It was one of the most difficult, yet she did it consistently with ease that belittled its difficulty. With the contest nearly over, Jane Fauntz led the field. Georgia Coleman had risen to new heights at the threat of defeat, a characteristic of a great champion. But she trailed the Illinois girl on points scored. It came the time for Miss Fauntz's pet dive. Doing this as she had always done, would put her so far ahead in the lead that she could not be headed. Doing this one dive, which she did best of all, she would outgrace the most graceful women in the world. Just this one effort and to her, an Olympic championship and all the glory that went with it. Easy. "

Hodak: Very flattering. Then what happened with the completion of your competition?

Manske: Well, it wasn't quite over yet, you see.

Hodak: I have looked at the charts and it appeared that you had the lead after the fourth or the fifth dive.

Manske: I did. And I thought I had it, I really did. But I wanted to be a good sport. Georgia Coleman had not been doing her most difficult dive well at all in practice. It was a reverse one-and-a-half and it was coming up. I went over to her and I said, "You can do that dive."

Hodak: As a means of, sort of, boosting her confidence?

Manske: Right, I was. I knew it was my best against her best, but one thing I did, I forgot the rule that I had been trying to remember, and that was: Don't watch the other divers. And here I had lost my own concentration by doing what I did. I went up to do my full twist, the one that I had gotten tens on in the nationals. I thought for sure I was going to hit it right on the button. But I was overly confident, a tiny bit, and my timing was off ever so much. I went up in the air and I knew I had misjudged my takeoff. So when I came down, my usual knife entry wasn't there and my legs splashed over from the knees down.

Hodak: And so it was obvious to you, as you had completed this dive, that this was not your best dive?

Manske: It was the worst one I had ever done. There went my world. I didn't even want to come up from the bottom of the pool.

Hodak: So you went from first to third with this dive?

Manske: I did. It was my next to the last dive. I went from first to third. Georgia went on to nail her gainer one-and-a-half. And although I gained the most points on the remaining dive, it was too late. I slipped from first to third and lost an Olympic championship. After the competition, Georgia came over to me and she said, "I think I owe my Olympic championship to you."

Hodak: What about the judging of the diving? What were the criteria then, as opposed to now? Are they roughly the same?

Manske: I think it's about the same; your takeoff, your height and your execution in the air, and then your all-important entry. That's the last thing the judge sees. That's where I was lucky because I used to have a knife entry.

Hodak: And that tends to leave the biggest impression on the judges, the entry?

Manske: They figure if you go in right, you've done it right.

Hodak: And how is the score calculated?

Manske: I think it's done the same way as it was. In other words, there were five judges and they throw out the high and the low and combine the others with the degree of difficulty of the dive. But it is still a matter of judgment, which is like in skating or gymnastics.

Hodak: Inevitably a sort of arbitrary judgment. It's obviously not as easy to measure or calculate as other events.

Manske: Right. No, it isn't. And so much of it . . . well, it all depends on the judging.

Hodak: I know that your event was towards the end of the Olympic competition. Were you able to attend or witness many other swimming events or track and field events?

Manske: Well, the track and field was over at first. It kind of interfered with our practice, depending on how we had to schedule ours with the other foreign people using the pool. So sometimes we had free time off and when we did we would attend whatever events were happening at the time. And the swimming events all came at the same time so that we got to see all of those. Among the most memorable events was the time Helene Madison, who was the Martha Norelius of 1932, won the 100-meter freestyle, the 100-meter freestyle and she was on the winning relay team—the 400-meter relay. So she gathered three gold medals for herself. But she wasn't really very modest about it. She was still very aloof. I guess she did one movie, but she wasn't exactly sensational. That was about the extent of her achievements.

Hodak: And how were the Closing Ceremonies handled in Los Angeles?

Manske: Many of the teams had already gone home. It wasn't as full or as exciting as the opening because a lot of the foreigners had returned, except those who were expecting medals. They have this way of giving us all the medals at the closing event. We'd stand on the little platform—first, second and third—and get our medals that way, according to the event which you were in. So, the entire track and field and swimming events and everything were given at the closing day. The Closing Ceremonies were marred by the first bit of politics. That was when some people ran around with a banner saying "Free Mooney. " Most of us didn't know who Mooney was but I guess people in Los Angeles did.

Hodak: Yes, Tom Mooney.

Manske: Tom Mooney. I don't remember exactly what he did or whether it would be considered terrible now. But, anyway, they ushered these banner carriers off in a hurry. So that was the end of that.

Hodak: So the Closing Ceremonies were somewhat . . . .

Manske: They were a let-down, after the opening. But, we knew they had been successful in the bottom of the Depression and that was a very great thing, which led to having the Games again in 1984 in the same stadium. It brought back a lot of memories.

Hodak: Were there any exhibitions or series of competitions following the Olympics that you were invited to take part in?

Manske: Well, I remember one. We were all invited down to Agua Caliente in Mexico. Georgia and I were giving a diving exhibition and the dive that I missed, which was the full twist, the one I lost the Olympic championship with, I hit on the button during the exhibition. And they made me come back and do it again. So, that made me wish I had had a second chance in the Olympic Games. But, those things don't happen. You have one chance and that's it. I do have the distinction of being one of few Olympians to compete in both swimming and diving.

Hodak: You mentioned Helene Madison's brief stint as an actress. Were there any opportunities that arose for you or for other athletes as a result of your exposure in the 1932 Olympics?

Manske: Well, for example, Eleanor Holm, she was the belle of the team, of course. She was very good looking and had such a great personality. So Ellie had offers to go in the Ziegfield Follies and she was in a couple of movies but she couldn't get rid of that Brooklyn accent, which kind of stuck out. Then, she was in a Tarzan movie with . . . I don't know if she was with John[Weissmuller], or one of the other Tarzans. I remember seeing it and I wondered what in the world she was doing in the jungle swimming backstroke. It was a little contrived. She just should have done freestyle when she was swimming in that romantic setting in the pool in the jungle. The backstroke seemed a little superfluous.

Hodak: Were you approached about any possibilities as an actress?

Manske: Well, I was kind of flattered. I had a very exciting telegram from an agent who was Jean Harlow's agent, and it said that there was an important producer who wanted to meet me. So, I was very flattered. The important producer turned out to be Howard Hughes. It seems that he was thinking of doing a college movie of some type and he wanted me to play one of three or four parts. But I decided that I would wait. Then, meanwhile, Buster Crabbe said that he was going to do a movie afterwards and he wondered if I would be interested in trying out for the lead opposite him. I was so scared, because I had always admired Buster, but just the very thought of me being in the movies with him . . . . He asked me at the closing of the Games and I said, "Who me? I should say not," and I walked off. And he said, "Well, if that's the way you feel about it . " It wasn't that I didn't want to, it was just the fact that I was so completely taken by surprise and shocked.

Hodak: Didn't fancy yourself an actress at that stage?

Manske: No, I didn't. But I did later on. I was on the cover of Ladies Home Journal and I did model at Saks Fifth Avenue in Chicago. And I did a Wheaties endorsement . . . o h , and Camels. Back in those days it was alright to smoke cigarettes and it was rather glamorous. So I did a Camels endorsement that was on the back of Life Magazine. So, I did alright. We didn't even have agents in those days like the athletes have now. So, we waited until people came to us with their offers or whatever they were.

Hodak: Following the 1932 Olympics did you decide that you were no longer to compete as a diver? Did you make any kind of firm decisions regarding this?

Manske: I decided that my competition days were over and I had to get on with this college business. I wanted to graduate. It was in my junior year, and I went back to college. And at the end of the junior year, the Chicago World's Fair opened up. I was offered a job to turn professional by diving at the place called the Streets of Paris at the World's Fair. It became the place to go and it was much fun because everybody in college wanted to get a job at the World's Fair. You almost had to be a Phi Beta Kappa—this is at the bottom of the Depression—to get a job selling hot dogs at the World's Fair. So anyway, it was the thing to do. I was making something like 100 dollars a week, which in those days was a lot of money. We had this diving act that consisted of another male diver who was the national intercollegiate diving champion, two clown divers, and I was diving also. So there were four of us. We had a small pool that was ten feet by ten feet and ten feet deep, and we had a three-meter board. And when you got up on top of that and looked down, you felt like you were diving into a cup of coffee, it was so small. But we became a very popular act and we had more fun. This was, incidentally, the same place where Sally Rand made her debut at the World's Fair and became very famous. So, we were just part of the fun and games there at the World's Fair. We met many wonderful people who came there. As a matter of fact, one of them was Mrs. Evelyn Walsh McClain and she was wearing the Hope Diamond. She was the present owner. And it was written up in the paper that she would be there that night wearing the Hope Diamond. Of course, she had an escort of security men around her. But she saw our diving act and. asked us to have champagne with her. You see, this pool was surrounded by a dance floor and a large outdoor restaurant. And it was the place to go. Anyway, she saw our diving act and invited us up to have champagne with her and I was very curious and I said, "Mrs. McClain, you are wearing the diamond." And she said, "Oh, yes." And I said, "May I see it?" So she reached down into her ample bosom and pulled out this huge thing encrusted in diamonds and the diamond itself looked like it was about the size of a paperweight. But I was disappointed because I expected it to be dazzling and white and, instead, it was a pale yellow. So I was looking at it and I said, "May I just hold it for just a moment?" And she said, "Well, you know that for anyone who touches it who is not the owner it's extremely bad luck." And I said, "Well, I'd like to hold it anyway because if anything happens to me in my future life I can always blame it on the Hope Diamond." So she said, "Okay, you may do so." And I did and it was a big thrill at the moment.

Hodak: And so then, from the World's Fair . . . following that you graduated?

Manske: I went back to college, yes. Then I graduated. And then I got into designing bathing suits. I had a job offered to me in Reading, Pennsylvania, designing bathing suits. And I thought that would be fun since I had spent most of my life in a wet bathing suit and I knew how they felt on and had a sense of style. Even though it had been criticized at the Olympic Games. I thought I would like to try to do that. As a matter of fact, I wanted to be a Jantzen diving girl. I figured that if I designed enough suits with this company to get a start, perhaps I could work for Jantzen in Portland, Oregon. And it was while I was at the Reading, Pennsylvania mill, where I was designing for Vanity Fair silk mills, that I read in the paper where Ed Manske was playing for the Philadelphia Eagles. I had met him because, believe it or not, he was selling canes at the Streets of Paris at the World's Fair. He was an All-American from Northwestern and at the bottom of the Depression you sell canes, you sell hot dogs or whatever, when you needed a job. And we had a lot of fun and I had met him casually. And then when he was playing for the Philadelphia Eagles, I dropped him a note and said that I was working there in Reading and if he had some time I'd like to have him drop by and see me. And that's when we started seeing each other.

About this time the 1936 Olympic tryouts were being held in New York, and Ed and I went over to watch them. I'd really been interested in women's sports and writing about them because I didn't think enough had been done. I met Grantland Rice at the women's swimming tryouts and I told him I was interested in writing. He said, "Why don't you cover the women's swimming tryouts for me because the track is the same day and is across town." It was in Flushing Meadows, I believe. So he said, "I'm going over there to cover the track and you cover the women's swimming tryouts for me." So this I did and I got my first byline, two columns in the New York papers by Grantland Rice. I took over his column for him. And about this time I wrote this article about women athletes. My whole approach was the hand that rocks the cradle doesn't throw the javelin. I wanted it to be feminine, and play up the feminine side of women in sports. So I talked Mr. Davis J. Walsh of the International News Service into letting me do this article. I think I got 50 dollars for it, which was pretty good in those days. When it came out in the New York papers I was flabbergasted because it read "Men Fear Us," and the whole thing was turned around to the point where I couldn't even recognize my own writing—and I had sweated over it. I didn't even recognize it because it was all in the attitude that women were going to do as well as men, and run as fast, swim as fast and do all these things, and it wasn't at all feminine like I had started out.

Another time when I was in New York, I met a friend of mine from the University of Illinois, Scott Reston, who is known as James Reston of the New York Times. He's a very famous writer to this day. He took me to lunch one time and I said, "I want to know how to write. I'm very interested in writing on women's sports." And he said, "Well, I don't know very much, but I'll tell you all I do." The only trouble is, he went on and became very famous and I'm still trying to write. But during the tryouts when I talked with Grantland Rice he said, "Why don't you come over to the 1936 Olympics, go over on the ship with us, and call back by                           trans-European phone call everyday. I hate to talk on the phone, so if you'll just send back my story every day, then you'll have a job." I was elated. I thought I'd love to do this; go back to Europe again on the ship with the athletes and all the excitement and get some locker room tidbits and do some writing on my own along with this. But, then when I asked Ed if it was alright—my husband-to-be—he said absolutely not.

Hodak: Scotched that trip, huh?

Manske: He scotched that trip before it got started. So that was possibly the end of my writing sports for women.

Hodak: But you were married shortly thereafter?

Manske: Yes. I guess I have been taking orders ever since. (laughter)

Hodak: Alright, I'd like to have you talk a bit about Mr. Manske's career.

You were married when? -

Manske: In 1936, in Philadelphia, when he was playing with the Philadelphia Eagles. He was a rookie on the team at the time and when he tried out for the team, his coach said, "You're never going to make it, you're too small." And that's all you had to do to Mr. Manske was to say your not going to do it or you can't do it. You see, he'd been an All-American at Northwestern University. And when he started to play pro ball, he found himself with the Philadelphia Eagles. And then, when "Lud" Ray, the coach, said, "You're too small to make it," that's all he had to do to my husband. Ed not only made the team, but he scored the most number of touchdowns for the team that year. After we were married in Philadelphia, he got traded to Chicago.

Hodak: Traded to Chicago for Bill Hewitt, I believe.                                                                                       

Manske: Yes, Bill Hewitt was the reason then. And being married to a  football player in Chicago, one of the Chicago Bears, was very interesting because we were both back in our own home town. It was fun to go to the football games at Wrigley Field, however I didn't know that much about football. But when I would go I would never watch the ball, I would always watch my husband because I never knew whether he was coming out horizontally or vertically. To me, that was the important thing.

Hodak: He appears to have held up pretty well though.

Manske: Yes, he did. Then, while he was in law school in Chicago, I was modeling at Saks Fifth Avenue. Then he was sold in a trade and he went to Pittsburgh. While he was at Pittsburgh he was a roommate of Byron "Whizzer" White and Whizzer studied all the time during the football season. My husband said, "Why don't you go to law school? I think you'd make a good lawyer." And Whizzer said, "Well, I have this Rhodes Scholarship. I'll go and see if I like it and see what happens, and after that perhaps I will." And, as you know, he is now on the Supreme Court. I'm glad he took my husband's advice.

Hodak: And your husband, then, was traded back to Chicago?

Manske: Back to the Bears. Then he played on the 1940 World Championship team that beat the Washington Redskins, 73-0. That was a very exciting game.

Hodak: Who were some of the more notable teammates on the Bears?

Manske: Oh, let me think back. Bronko Nagurski, a much better person to play with, instead of against. Some of his teammates were Bill Osmanski, Beattie Feathers, Dan Fortman, George Musso and Sid Luckman. I have a story about Bill Osmanski. Back in those days we didn't have television, it was only radio. And the poor radio announcer used to get so mixed up, he'd say, "It's Bill Osmanski, no it's "Eggs" Manske. Who's got the ball?" Just like, who's on first? We were all mixed up and I got accused of being Mrs. Osmanski, when I was really Mrs. "Eggs" Manske, but you can understand the mix up.

Hodak: Where did Mr. Manske get the nickname "Eggs?"

Manske: Oh yes, let me tell you about that. He was one of nine children, and they lived on a farm in Wisconsin. And they had their regular duties like bringing in the eggs, bringing in the wood or whatever had to be brought in. When it was Ed's turn to bring in the eggs, he would bring in fewer than anybody else. They finally discovered that he was eating all the raw eggs that he could eat. (laughter) so they called him "Eggs." His real name is Edgar, and he had a brother named Edwin. So there was Edwin and Edgar, and so he made it a little simpler to just call him "Eggs." And he earned the name.

Pretty soon, we found ourselves parents. We had ordered one football player, but we got one little girl instead. And then, the war came along and Mr. Manske found himself one of the "30-day wonders" at Annapolis in the Navy.

Hodak: What do you mean by "30-day wonder?"

Manske: Well, he was a midshipman and he became an ensign in 30 days instead of going to the Naval Academy, because those were the war conditions. As a matter of fact, we heard about the war when he and my dad were at a Chicago Bears football game, watching as spectators, when Pearl Harbor happened. It was a big happening. It was a hard halftime act to follow at the Bears game, I can tell you.

Hodak: I dare say. So following the war, where did you find yourself?

Manske: We came back to Chicago and my husband went to coach with Clark  Shaughnessy, taking over for him while Clark was doing something or other. But anyway, he was coaching with Clark Shaughnessy and he learned much of his principles about coaching from Clark, whom he respected very greatly. And then, before we knew it—

Hodak: And this was at the University of Maryland?

Manske: Maryland, right. And then, before we knew it, we were parents again. This time the football player became twin girls.

Hodak: Still no football player?

Manske: No football player. We had three girls and we decided we'd have a whole backyard full of girls before we got our one football player. Now, my husband's career changed, because he went with Lynn "Pappy" Waldorf, who left Northwestern to go to the University of California as the head coach. My husband went with him as the end coach and we finally made it to the sunny state of California, which is a great place for children to be brought up rather than the cold winters of Chicago. Ed was very busy coaching with Waldorf and they were very fortunate and had three consecutive Rose Bowl teams. My husband coached all the ends and he did a great job on scouting. His main problem was to scout Stanford for the big game.

All the time he was with "Pappy" the University of California never lost a game to Stanford. Once they tied, but I guess that was a slip up on somebody's part, not my husband's because he was a great scout. The whole season at the University of California seemed to verge on the end of who won the Stanford-California game.

Hodak: It still does.

Manske: I know, it's terribly important. I had never seen a big game in my life until I came out here and I couldn't understand why they got so excited about it until I saw my first big game, and now I understand completely. This is a phenomena in the world of football, as far as I am concerned. So, Ed gave a lot of his life to Cal. In fact, during the time my husband coached at California, they only lost one game and had a record of 10-1. Then, he decided to quit coaching and went to teaching at Berkeley High School. I might add that Mr. Manske and I have been married 51 years. We celebrated our golden anniversary last year.

Anyway, at this point, my children were old enough so that I began my teaching career. I began teaching second grade and I have never had so much fun in my life as I did with all the little kids. I loved them, and that's why to this day I'm writing for children, because I think they are wonderfully fun. I used to take a notebook every day in school and write all the funny little things that happened. I also did drawings and caricatures of all the little kids I had in class. So from second grade, I went to high school teaching art. I had always been interested in art and was waiting for an art job to open up, that's why I took the second grade. So when I got to high school, I began a 20-year career. I loved teaching all forms of art, from cartooning to life-drawing to portrait painting and sculpture.

Then, on the side, they snookered me into coaching the boys diving team, which I loved, of course. And we went to the North Coast tournament and I had three North Coast diving champions, so I still hadn't quite forgotten. I used to work out with the boys once in a while and dive myself.

But then, after 20 years of teaching, I decided it was about time I devoted a little time to myself for my own true art interests. After I retired, I became interested in portrait painting and I studied a lot with some of the famous teachers in Northern California. I was interested in writing also. I have been trying to write for children and illustrate. Then, when the 1984 Olympics came around, the Kalos Golgothos Foundation commissioned me to do the FINA [Federation Internationale de Natation Amateur] award. FINA, as you know, is the highest swimming association in the world.

Hodak: That's the international swimming federation?

Manske: Of course it is. The N in the middle is what throws you. It stands for natation, which is French for swimming. And that's FINA. Anyway, the FINA award that I did was given to the Russian swimmer who was not allowed to be here because the Russians boycotted the 1984 Olympics. His name was Vladimir Sainikov, the great Russian swimmer. And the other one went to Greg Louganis, our diver. Greg's trophy was given to him during the Olympic Games here in 1984. Then, I was commissioned by the Southern California Olympians organization, of which Andy Strenk was the president at the time, to do my impression of the first Greek athlete, whose name was Koriobus. I'm not so very good in Greek but I think that was his name. And it was my impression of him. I did him in bronze and one of the trophies was given to the official photographer of the 1984 Olympics, Bud Greenspan; another went to ARCO for their great help in the Games of 1984; and another one went to Andy Strenk, who was president of the Southern California Olympians at the time.

I've done some work since for Glenn Sundby of International Gymnast magazine. I did some bronze gymnastic trophies. One was given to Mary Lou Retton and another to Nadia Comaneci. I was very happy to be able to do those and to be commissioned by the gymnastics magazine. By the way, they are going to have a gymnastics hall of fame now, sponsored by International Gymnast magazine. It will be in Oceanside, California. That's brand new; I think it will be open this year.

And the last thing that I did was . . . I was commissioned by three Rose Bowl teams from the University of California to do a bronze head of "Pappy" Waldorf, which is now in the Fame Room at the football stadium at the University of California.

Hodak: And you've continued your work as an artist?

Manske: Yes, I do occasional portraits and caricatures and things like that. As I said, I am interested now in doing children's illustration and writing for children. I do not believe in living in the past. There is too much to do in the present.

Hodak: I think that's something we could all profit from. I wonder if you have any general summary thoughts on the significance the Olympics, or sports in general, has had for you, as well as any thoughts on the Olympic Movement and its development.

Manske: Well, I think that any kind of competition, especially in the Olympics, at that level, is a great preparation for the competition of life itself. If you set goals for yourself and you reach them in the Olympics, you do the same thing in life. It gives you a feeling of self-confidence. Mr. [Baron Pierre de] Coubertin, a great Frenchman who was so important in the founding and the continuance of the Olympics, once said, "A better world is brought about by better individuals." There is also one little poem that I am particularly fond of that says, "Aim high, stand tall, and if you fall, you tried, and nearly had it all."

Hodak: So with that I think we can conclude. I appreciate your allowing me to come down and interview you and your cooperation on the project. The Amateur Athletic Foundation sincerely appreciates your cooperation also.